Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Learn Some Civility



In case you haven’t noticed, I’ve been in blog retirement.  I decided that writing a blog really wasn’t me.  I am more of the loud mouth uncle at the family reunions, than the carefully thought out writer.  But, I am coming out of retirement for one last hurrah.  It seems that my daughter, who is a gifted writer and activist, has decided to quit blogging because of the negative bull shit she has to put up with. 
First I would like to make a confession: I am an atheist.  My daughter is an atheist blogger.  But for the record, she did not become an atheist because of my brainwashing.  Quiet the contrary, her courage to speak out for those who have no religious clout, greatly influenced me in realizing I was an atheist.  I admired her courage to try to fight for the civil rights of this ignored part of society. 
But, she has paid a great price.  She has caught unbelievable shit for speaking out.   People who call her whore, cunt, bitch, etc. need to learn some civility.  Some parents forgot to teach their children how to disagree without being disagreeable.

The Internet has allowed a lot of people to express their thoughts.  But, it has also allowed anonymous people to publish pure hate and filth without any accountability.  If someone has enough balls to call my daughter a slut to her face I would quickly introduce them to some accountability – a quick fist to the mouth.
What we need in our society is a multitude of free thought, not a multitude of foul mouths.  I am sorry that humanity has lost a great voice for advancing atheist civil rights.  But I am extremely proud of the unselfish service she has given to this group -- which includes me.   
Now, I am going back to retirement.

365 comments:

  1. Hi Mike, glad to hear from you, even if it is under such circumstances. And the crap your daughter is taking breaks my heart. I've admired her writing and brains and passion for quite a while now, and certainly hope she takes the time she needs to heal and that

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  2. Pisses me off that Jen is going out of blogging. Tell her I loved her! If she comes back, let me know!

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  3. People that write blogs with 'quiet' and 'bull shit' need to learn some spelling.

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  4. "If someone has enough balls to call my daughter a slut to her face I would quickly introduce them to some accountability – a quick fist to the mouth."
    If my 16 year old daughter calls your Jen a slut to her face will you punch her in the mouth? Just asking coz of equal rights and shit.....

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  5. "The Internet has allowed a lot of people to express their thoughts. But, it has also allowed anonymous people to publish pure hate and filth without any accountability. "
    Yes....Terrible isn't it? It also allows the angry fathers of second rate bloggers to threaten people with violence. The internet eh? Such a terrible state of affairs. What are you doing to combat it?

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  6. One would think the father of a feminists would trust in his daughters ability to stand up and be strong for herself against those big bad words. To be able to hold anyone who calls her a slut accountable for their own action, on her terms, instead of relying on a man to do it, hiding behind him like a child (not accusing her of such, I'm saying this would be the result of your own admitted actions).

    I presume you also hold your daughter accountable for her words and actions, and if, having called someone else a slut (or the more common rapist and rape apologist that those in her circle tend to use) and gotten a fist to the chops, you'd be OK with that?

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  7. Embarrassing Dad mode enabled:

    Jen: DAAAAaaaad! Your making it WORSE!
    Jen's Dad: Shush honey. I know best..... *blogs about how to physically assault an internet troll*

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  8. " I am sorry that humanity has lost a great voice for advancing atheist civil rights. "

    That's hilarious! Thanks for the lulz :)

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  9. You know, Mike, this message would probably cut a little deeper, and reach further, if you made and uploaded a video. A lot of people nowadays are too lazy to bother reading, and I think your message is both poignant and important. People on the internet need to be taught some respect!

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  10. "Some parents forgot to teach their children how to disagree without being disagreeable."
    Good to see you taking some responsibility for your daughters hate filled attitude.

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  11. Why is being a slut bad?

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  12. Jen made numerous false accusations against atheists, wrongfully and hatefully accuses others of being misogynists, MRA, rape-supporters, etc. Jen suppresses Richard Dawkins, someone with more qualifications, more knowledge, and more contributions than the whole FTB combined, by calling him a old, white, heterosexual male, which is sexist and racist at the same time. Jen reinforces negative gender stereotypes towards both genders, and now we have the father making threats against others who would non-violently voice words to Jen?

    Well, now I can see why Jen is batshit crazy. Looks like the apple didn't fall too far from the tree.

    BTW, after all of the harm that she's done, I wouldn't hesitate to call her a cunt to her face.

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  13. The Damage Dealing Meat ShieldSeptember 9, 2012 at 10:35 PM

    Just another white knight talking tough on the Internet. I would love to see you punch someone in the mouth for calling your dear ol' Jen a "slut" IRL. Let's see, perhaps you can add assault, attempted assault, threats of violence, et al to your list of life time achievements.

    The fact that Jenny ran away from her vanity marketing project, Atheism+, because people used words she didn't like reeks of a spineless person who could never lead a civil rights movement. The fact still remains that your daughter and cohorts are a joke. If they can't take some foul language on the Internet, what hope do they have when it comes to real life? It's clear they don't have much a of chance.

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  14. BAHAHAHAHAHA!! Daddy has to stand up for poor widdle Jen... Oh this is priceless!

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  15. An old, white, privileged male... I think Jen's dad has just outed himself as unacceptable for A+. Not to mention this blog is so hilarious! Jen needs her daddy to fight her battles as an empowered feminist... ROFL!

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  16. After reading that I can certainly see why your daughter turned out to be the laughably irrational, nauseatingly self-important attention whore she is today.

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  17. Lol good work dad. I am an apathyplus (apathy+) advocate. I don't give a fuck about giving a fuck about your precious daughter's feelings. A cunt who calls others cunts deserves the label in return. Jen, you are you father's daughter.

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  18. Thinking about punching people for bad-mouthing your daughter? Check your privilege!

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  19. CONSEQUENCES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!!!!

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  20. I agree. Fight ideas with ideas, not with name-calling etc. Both sides should adopt this approach.

    However this: "If someone has enough balls to call my daughter a slut to her face I would quickly introduce them to some accountability – a quick fist to the mouth." seems out of place in a post on civility...

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  21. This has increased my understanding of BlagHag.

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  22. YOUR DAUGHTER IS A SLUT!!!!!!!!!!! That's right, you raised a SLUTTY SLUT SLUT OF A SLUTDAUGHTER!!!!

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  23. Mr. McCreight, although I do not think harassing your daughter (or anyone) is appropriate, I don't think you understand both sides of the coin. Your blog is also a bit hypocritical. Civility by punching? Classy.

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  24. A tragic loss, but everything that she has done for atheism, all on her own without anyone having paved the way for her in advance, shall remain as a monument to her moral fortitude. I weep for the young, spoiled, self-righteous white middle-class.

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  25. Is Jen really at that age where she still needs her parents to stick up for her?

    I'm sorry, the threats and harassment notwithstanding, if she enters the frail and states unsubstantiated claims, frankly horrible things about others that will not stand up for scrutiny except in her own echochamber, she needs to accept accountability. Most people have not been threatening her with death or rape, but merely asked for her -- not demanded, asked -- to answer for what she's written. Most people have not been harassing her, or "pushing her out" as she claims. That's just another one of her unsubstantiated, clearly baseless accusations that she is not privy to support with evidence.

    Furthermore, it's pathetic you end your post with humanity losing a voice for advancing civil rights. Please! When Martin Luther King was trying to advance civil rights, did he run to his mummy and daddy when life got rough? Did the Suffragettes burst into tears when sexist, misogynist men were harming their cause? Did they write mean articles in newspapers, obfuscating the issue with hyperbolic invective and sensationalism? Hell no! The Suffragettes and MLK did much more in the cause for feminism and civil rights than Jen McCreight will *ever* do, if this is how she intends to fight, if *this* is how she wishes the new Atheism Plus movement to operate. Absolutely worthless.

    She was *pushed out*? Bugger off. She pushed *herself* out. Most of this community didn't harass her, call her names, threaten her. You need to tell your daughter to grow up, and grow a damn spine while she's at it. Grow a thicker skin. The advancement of civil rights don't need leaders like her, who can't even take criticism. Who can't take disagreement without her clique on FTB to support her, and for her parents to bail her out and tell her it's going to be okay, with the added narrative of threats of a split lip for her detractors. Sort your fucking life out, mate.

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  26. I'm guessing Jen can punch people in the mouth, too. I never heard her pop said HE'd be the one punching. Thanks, Sir. I appreciate your support of your daughter. I wish I had a Dad like you!

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  27. You are an ass, dishonest, and a horrible semi-human.

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  28. Hi Mike. I've met your daughter. She's smart (obviously!), funny, together, and fierce (in a good way). The disgusting dreck piling up in your comments just shows what kind of people the commenters are.

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  29. Nope, you have no clue either. Asshole number 3.

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  30. Marcus the asshole. Number 9. Lets google bomb this one.

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  31. I'm not bothering to read the other comments - the first two are real shitbags. I just wanted to say your daughter has lots of supporters out here, far more than the assholes. There's plenty of people who stand with Jen and share her fight. Ignore the shit-heels, have a great week, and know you raised a great person.

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  32. 10th, you need to be more original

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  33. Nope, another clueless asshole. #12

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  34. Why would your daughter be an asshole? Unless you taught her how. #13

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  35. Nope, yer an idiot. #14

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  36. Pretty funny. assditty ass ass ass ass of an ass. #15

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  37. And now sanctimonious asshole. #16

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  38. Wow, so many people seem determined to prove how necessary it sometimes is for normal people with normal levels of empathy to take a break from the internet. You people suck, you know that, right? Like, you're horrible, awful people and you should feel bad about yourselves. You probably do but can't admit it. What a shame that you feel so compelled to take out your misery on other people.

    Mr. McCreight, good on you for standing up for your daughter.

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  39. Wow, so many slimeballs showing up to be slimy. Ha! Anyone else notice that the slimier the comment, the more likes? I feel like I've hit "Animal Planet" and am watching maggots crawling over each other to get to the most fetid pile of shit.

    Mike, FWIW, whatever her ultimate religious beliefs, I can only hope to raise my daughter to have the same moral fortitude and conviction of character as your daughter. Sorry to see the haters win out; if you can let your daughter know that she's been an inspiration to the principals by which at least my children will be raised, please let her know her efforts weren't in vain.

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  40. I would just like to say that your daughter has had a great impact on me as an atheist and a woman, and I do believe she has been a great voice in the movement. I support her all the way, and all these malicious people (f*ckers) can just take a hike.

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  41. I'd rather know one of you and your daughter than a hundred of the miserable pustules trying to bury her in hate.

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  42. Mike,
    Thank you for this. Your daughter is an amazing young woman. Smart, witty, well informed, and full of ideas. It makes me sick to my stomach to see the way she's treated and then to watch these bullies dismiss her as being overly sensitive.

    To all those bullies:
    I still want ONE.
    Just ONE DAMN SPECIFIC example of what Jen has done or said that could warrant the level of vitriol directed against her.
    I haven’t even seen that.
    You slime sucking scumbag’s lob death and rape threats at her like she burned down your home or stole all your life savings (not that those threats would be justified in such a situation, but I could understand why you would be mad at her).

    Now you insult her father for doing nothing more than speaking out in her defense?
    You tell him he's a failure?
    How much lower do you plan to go in defense of imagined slights?

    Mike, I'm here to tell you:
    YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE.
    You raised fantastic daughter.

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  43. Your daughter has proven herself time and again to be a strong voice as full of compassion and humor as of reason and intelligence. She is well loved, and many of us are hoping for her return. Hats off to you sir....

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  44. Thank you Mike. You are supported by the vast majority of people. I hope the horror in these comments doesn't get you down.

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  45. Mr. McCreight, good for you for standing up for your daughter. Everyone needs some moral support when under attack. She is a brave, smart person who doesn't deserve any of the hatred thrown her way.

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  46. Mikey -- instead of engaging in cheap shots like commenting on trivial matters like spelling, how about saying something substantive.

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  47. Thank you for adding one more voice of support to this whole mess.

    Hell, I doubt I need to thank you really. She is your daughter anyways.

    So instead I'll thank you for having an awesome daughter, and being awesome like her.

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  48. Mr. McCreight, it's wonderful that you're standing up for your amazing, talented, and brilliant daughter. It's good that she knows she's got people in her corner who aren't just internet supporters like me. As for the revolting people who are throwing slime: I only hope they eventually gain the intelligence and character to be ashamed of themselves.

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  49. Wow ... I never knew that a loving parent expressing concern for his daughter could attract the attention of so many tacky people.

    Mike ... I know that you would never actually punch any of the persons who insulted your daughter. We all know it's pretty hard to actually track down the internet cowards who hide behind pseudonyms when they post their insults.

    For all of the folks commenting here who disagree with Jen's writing and the Atheism + proposal, keep in mind what she said when she announced her break:

    "I’ve dealt with chronic depression since elementary school, and receiving a daily flood of hatred triggers it."

    Depression is a medical condition and the persons who are verbally piling on Jen for taking a break are ethically the same as persons who mock those with physical disabilities.

    Mike, I've read your daughter's blog for the past few years and I'm impressed with the work she has done and the fortitude she has shown in getting the atheist world to critically examine its biases and prejudices.

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  50. Care to explain? All I see from you is a bunch of name calliing.

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  51. Plenty of name calling...not adding to the discussion.

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  52. So tell my, why do some atheists want a 'safe space' forum where they can actually discuss issues they care about without having hate-filled shit spewed at them all the time... oh, wait, don't bother.

    Echoing Neeroc's comment - Jen has done nothing to deserve this crap. Not. One. Damn. Thing.

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  53. The Damage Dealing Meat ShieldSeptember 10, 2012 at 8:53 PM

    Is that the best you can come up?

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  54. Jen did say that depression was a factor here. Are you callous enough to say that she isn't entitled to some time off due to this? Even if you disagree with Jen, please show some class.

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  55. I can't believe people showed up to call jen more sexist slurs or make fun of her dad for giving a shit about her. really? Its normal for parents to care about their kids. Something is very wrong with people who don't understand that.

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  56. I don't have anything usefully supportive to say, but I do want to say that Jen does not deserve even a little of the bullshit she is getting, nor do you deserve the bullshit you're getting for speaking out.

    It's not very much comfort to know that they attack you when they know they're wrong, but sometimes even that tiny bit is something.

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  57. The tenor of this comment suggests that you don't understand what being part of a loving supportive family is like. If you are one tenth as despicable IRL as you are online, I see why.

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  58. Thanks, Mike. As the daughter of an awesome supportive dad, this really made my day. Jen's been through hell for no good reason. It's comforting to know that she's got a strong and loving support system.

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  59. You are fucking pathetic.

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  60. into pony play, huh?

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  61. Mr McCreight, you are a real mensch in my book. And your daughter is an amazing woman.

    The slimepit trolls who emerged here to smear her, only prove her point. And yours.

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  62. What the hell is wrong with some of the commenters? Disgusting cowardly fuckwits, throwing online temper tantrums. (I wonder how they manage to type while rolling on the floor, kicking and screaming.)
    Mike, I'm really sorry that Jen gets this kind of cowardly anonymous abuse. Thanks for sticking up for her.

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  63. I'm a reader of your daughter's blog. I was sorry to see her drop offline and I'm appalled to see the reaction to this post. Thank you for speaking out. I'm sorry for what you and she are dealing with. I hope she can return to blogging soon, and if not, that she at least feels better.

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  64. Thanks for writing this. I'm a long-time lurker at your daughter's blog and never gtot around to thanking her for her work.

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  65. Mr. McCreight, Just this summer, I became aware of your daughter's blog and her impact on-- and beyond-- the atheist community. I've been teaching at IU for 16 years, and I've learned that there are amazing young people out there. Your daughter is at the very top of that class. I'm glad she has your support, and I can't say how sorry I am that she needs it because there unbelievably petty people have made it a quest to harass her. She deserves so much better.

    I only hope that you both know that she has tremendous support out here.

    My best wishes to you both, and congratulations to you for having raised a daughter like Jen.

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  66. Dear Mr. McCreight, I live in Seattle and have met your very talented and lovely daughter. I am a parent of college aged children and it hurts me to see how she has been treated for her very reasoned approach to the issues.

    I hope that I can be a strong a mother as you are a father. And I just scanned through the comments. Yes, as a parent my first reaction would be to punch many of the sorry fools for calling any child of mine such things. It shows a deep lack of intellectual depth to call others names, and to besmirch the love a parent has for his/her child. You silly kids have no idea what you are dealing with.

    Though, in reality, we would lean back, fold our arms, and say calmly: "I thought you were better than this". Which would only be the first sentence to the lecture that makes a teenager want to crawl under their bed and beg for the spanking because it was quick and much less painful than the dreaded "lecture." And trust me, I can do that lecture. With my infamous "mom voice."

    And I don't even have to use religion. Because morals in our house are not dictated by an imaginary sky fairy. It is just a wee bit of civility.

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  67. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with some of you people? Jen's done amazing work for the skeptic and atheist community. She's done absolutely nothing to deserve the level of irrational vitriol that's been leveled at her - her taking a break from blogging because it's become too much isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of how monumentally appalling the crap being thrown her way has become. Mr. McCreight, thank you for sticking up for your daughter. Standing up for her like this doesn't mean you think she can't stand up for herself, it means you're being a great parent and supporting your daughter by speaking out and adding your voice to hers.

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  68. It is accurate, why does it need to be verbose?

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  69. Jen has nobody to blame but herself for all this anger. She brought it on herself. You reap what you sow.
    Jen is a big girl now and she should be able to handle this like an adult. If not, she shouldn't be on the internet in the first place.

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  70. Jen's writing has significantly affected my life. She opened my mind to issues I would never have considered, and I am a much better person thanks to her influence than I was before. Particularly in regards to my understanding of the challenges women face in our society, and how I can do my part to alleviate them.

    Jen is a remarkable person who puts up with a lot of shit, and somehow maintains a decorum which I could not.

    Fuck trolls.

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  71. Mike, sorry that all the assholes on the internet decided to congregate here.

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  72. I have nothing against Jen and have been reading her blogs for some time. I just don't think she has done anything for the atheist/skeptic community.

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  73. HAhah. Jen suppresses Dawkins? Ohh poor dawkins! I heard he was a pauper now, using the thousands of unsold copies of his books to shelter himself.

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  74. You have every reason to be proud of your daughter. She is a credit to the human race, and the vicious bullies who are treating her so badly are contemptible cowards and asses. I know Jen didn't ask you to defend her; she didn't have to; that's what a good father does. I wish you and your wonderful daughter (who I have met, and was charmed by) all the very best sir.

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  75. If Dawkins is suppressable by such a weakling as Jen McCreight, doesn't that make him a double weakling? Or does that only apply when the person in question presents as female?

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  76. All I see from you is shitting on someone who is righteously pissed because sexist assholes are bombarding his daughter with threats and slurs. You don't have any high moral ground to lecture anyone about what's classy and what's not.

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  77. Hi Hannibal. Still think rape threats are just a tad over the line? If a person threatened to rape me in person, I just might punch them too. Lawd have mercy! Does that make me a Bad Person and a Hypocrite?

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  78. Is there something wrong with hating rape threats?

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  79. Haha, you just outed yourself as someone willfully ignorant. Hmm... somehow it's not very funny. Just sad.

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  80. Yes, you're certainly an expert on bullying. You certainly are quite talented at it, Kristina Hansen.

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  81. "I find the idea of advancing civil rights hilarious!"

    And you wonder why people don't want to be around you?

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  82. Lawd almighty, it is a thought crime.

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  83. What discussion? There are assholes barraging Jen McCreight and other atheist women with misogynist abuse and threats.

    This is a bad thing, period. Full stop.

    There is no discussion, there is just a concerted campaign of sexist harassment against outspoken feminists and the reaction to it.

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  84. It's sad because open atheists (a majority) and overly expressive religious people are so annoying. Is there such a thing as a group of people I don't have to shake my head at and embarrassed identifying myself with?

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  85. So long as that doesn't refer to my comment...

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  86. You seemed to miss the "I agree" part. I understand his emotional reaction - I was just pointing out that this is a post on civility and that line didn't seem to fit - NOT that it wasn't understandable given the circumstances.

    But no - you're quick to say 'sanctimonious asshole' without an ounce of thought, and SIX people (so far) think that's reasonable(!) enough to click the 'Like' button.

    This is a post on civility, yet you seem to disagree with Mike enough to behave uncivilly on his blog. You insult someone who has the temerity to point out that threats of violence (no matter how understandable) aren't the most fitting thing to have in a post on civility.

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  87. Nah , that just makes you a moron with an inability to read. He said if someone called her a slut he would punch them. Nobody mentioned him punching anybody for threatening to rape her. So threats of physical violence for name calling are OK eh? Fuck...you would be in trouble if that was the case.

    BTW I know you see rape in everything but unfortunately cupcake you need to look elsewhere.

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  88. Name one example of something she did or wrote to deserve death/rape threats, threats against her employment, or even being called sexist slurs endlessly. Just one.

    Or else shut the fuck up and crawl back under your dank little rock.

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  89. Dear Mr McCreight. The comments you are receiving indicate just why more reasoned discussion is needed; the worst ones here are probably a tiny portion - both in terms of ferocity and number - of what she was probably exposed to daily. Thanks for writing this. It is a sad day for our species when a father's love displayed in defence of his daughter receiving ill-treatment is itself responded to with scorn.

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  90. Hi Mike. I don't know your daughter, but I read her blog off and on. From what I've read of her I think you've raised a pretty great lady and I just wanted to express my support for you and your family.

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  91. It amazes me looking at the earlier comments that some people actually wonder why there was a need for A+. A man sticks up for his daughter and his thanks is to win a share of the harassment she is receiving for doing nothing more offensive than asking that women be treated like people in the atheist community. All of you lobbing insults, threats and blaming Jen for the vitriol YOU are spewing: kindly get the hell off my planet please.

    Mike, thank you for raising an awesome, brave, intelligent daughter and thank you for being willing to put yourself in the line of fire in her defense.

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  92. Jen is the most amazing person in the world, and you should be proud to have had the privilege of having raised her.

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  93. Come on guys this is getting out of hand. Isn't America supposed to be a secularised country? The freedom of speech, press and religion you're so proud of, what happened to them? If you guys have a freedom of religion, shouldn't people be free NOT to have a religion? Jen was promoting not having a religion as well as promoting equal rights between men and women, that's all there was to it. Why is that such a big deal? Why does she need to get all this bad mouthing and all these slurs from you, just cause she blogged for a good cause? I don't get it, but then again, I'm not American. USA - the country of freedom, my ass.

    Mike, tell Jen to come here. Live here for a while. 'Here' is Sweden, or anywhere in the Nordic for that matter. I can proudly say that I don't know ANYONE who's religious, everyone I know is either agnostic or atheist. I don't know ANYONE who'd make a big deal out of you coming out as gay or bi. I don't know ANYONE who'd think less of me cause I'm a woman. Actually I don't know anyone who'd expect me to want to stay home and take care of the children. I don't know anyone who has a mum who's a housewife. Truly. So yeah, Americans you can stick that freedom banner somwhere the sun don't shine cause you're about 50 years behind.

    Jen, I loved reading your blog. It gave me some hope that the US was actually going somewhere. I miss you.

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  94. I've met Jen, and I've heard her speak twice. She's a great woman, and it is sad that she had to take a break from blogging. The hate and threats she's received from so-called "rationalists" are unacceptable. She showed that some "skeptics" joined because they wanted to feel superior to others.

    I admire her writing, and I know she will do good things in her life.

    Thanks for posting this.

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  95. Hey, Mike.

    I don't agree with everything your daughter has to say. But if she's pissed off the trolls this badly, she must be doing something right.

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  96. I'm sorry, was your narrative that Jen McCreight is a weakling, or that she isn't a weakling?

    Because your argument doesn't work. Richard Dawkins is suppressed by a weakling like McCreight, hence he's doubly a weakling, but you don't actually think that Jen is a weakling, now do you? *knock on wood* Good. Glad we sorted that out. Your comment is basically pointless. By the way, your "because she's a woman?" shtick is sexist and unnecessary. Please don't use it again.

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  97. Good post, Mike -- and I don't think we've lost your daughter's voice, in fact I think eventually this current sad stupidity only will amplify it. :)

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  98. How is Jen even able to get out of her home, if the threats she receives are so severe and frequent?

    Oh, right. Because they're from the internet. Threats on the internet. You know, the kind Richard Dawkins have gotten since 2006 and frequently mocked on video. Come to think of it, Jen used to do the same thing. I guess the difference is that Jen turned into a humourless husk and Richard didn't, but I guess that's all that 'old white guy' privilege keeping him going. What a bastard.

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  99. Yes, bombarding his daughter with threats and slurs. Did I mention those threats are on the internet? The slurs can be ignored. The slurs, rightly, can be dismissed coming from sexist assholes. Most people, however, are not sexist assholes. Most people who criticise Jen do it from a legitimate standpoint. That is, however, not possible to deal with when you are unable to distinguish between legitimate criticism and rape threats. You seem to have the same problem.

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  100. Yes. Better for you and Lymie to count the number you think are assholes on this blog.

    Frankly I'm not sure how someone can out themselves as willfully ignorant to point out the obvious of an old, white, privileged white male (such as Mr. McCreight) telling us all how to behave in an act of benevolent sexism. Were the tables turned, I doubt she would appreciate the scolding of a hotblooded, cisgendered heterosexual man, making threats on the internet that brought Jen to a state of depression. Maybe you ought to think about us poor souls who have to take such scathing vitriol.

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  101. Just voicing my support for Jen and for a dad who stands by his daughter. My hat's off to both of you.

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  102. Straight from the FTB handbook: build up a strawman, burn it down.

    Why the sceptic community considers FTB to be an embarassment is a mystery.

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  103. Which is why he deserves to be called a 'sanctimonious asshole' for agreeing to a bit of civility.

    Maybe if you and Lymie learned some manners and a bit of common sense, you wouldn't be making silly arguments like this.

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  104. Hey King. Just want to lend my support. I have two daughters myself and I would be justifiably outraged if anyone treated them the way these horrible people have treated Jen. And don't let them call you a hypocrite for imagining a violent response. I'm pretty sure "your daughter is a slut" counts as fighting words. No jury would convict.

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  105. I'm sorry that some people are just too pitiful to have a real life. I've been following your daughters blog for several years now, and was saddened to see the trolls have driven her away, hopefully temporarily, from blogging. It's sad that now people can't spew vitrol on her blog, they have to move to yours. You've raised an amazing daughter. If my wife and I would have had kids, I hoped that they would be like her. Strong, independent and thinkers. Be proud of her, and ignore the haters. Hopefully I will meet her in person one day and buy her a beer, just so I could listen to her stories. I could hope you would be with her also.

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  106. By "such things", you mean telling her to grow up? Telling her to grow a thicker skin? Telling her how it's hypocritical to berate men all day, every day, only to have her strong, privileged, old, white male father to save her from bereavment? How good of him to stand up to such bullying. She wishes to be a leader of civil rights but at the first sign of trouble, she runs for the hills. Oh, if only Martin Luther King had such tenacity. Lincoln and Kennedy? Shmucks. Jennifer McCreight, ladies and gentlemen. Steady as a rock.

    It's kind of you to show the same moral elasticity as Mike, threatening to punch people in the face. Maybe Seattle isn't such a safe city after all, being the fourth safest city in the US, if you get such a strong tendency for physical violence. Tsk tsk tsk. Man. If any of these threats are substantiated in any way, as threats on the internet often are,* that would be -terrible.- Anyway, I'll just end by saying you're being very silly and you should stop. Lecture yourself. Channel your "mom voice."



















    *hahaha

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  107. Jen has also helped raise my awareness to civil rights, helped me become a better person. The pushback we see here as a result of her challenging the status quo just highlights how much those challenges are needed. Thank you for supporting her.

    This vitriol is the Old Guard's adrenaline pulse, the quick inhale, the widening of the eyes as they realize that a battle has been started that they will not win. They can thrash and sputter all they want, but the time for their closed-mindedness is itself coming to a close. Good riddance I say.

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  108. Hello Mike,

    please give your daughter a hug (from me if she wants it), she's amazing.

    I'm saddened that there are so many trolls on the internet...

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  109. It's fast becoming hilarious of any criticism becomes sexist, despite not bringing in gender roles into the equation. It's also fast becoming hilarious how quick you people are to denote it as such, or misogynist, in turn making it akin to the "race card" that black people pulled, or still pull, when the subject of race isn't even in question. "It's because I'm black, isn't it?"

    "It's because I'm a woman, isn't it?"

    You don't really have a say in this anyway, skeptifem, with the things you say on your "about" page. You're pretty awful, and I don't just say that because you're a woman because you give women a bad name. Try to be less of an awful, disparaging primate and more of an actual human being. Yes, we mock him, but only because he's willing to overlook the many faults of his daughter -- of which there are many -- and focus only on the dredge of which, again, there are many. Which, as her father, we can forgive. But if he says silly things like Jen being a great voice for advancing civil rights, but being "pushed out" by mean people on the internet, we're just not going to take that sitting down, now are we? Especially since it's an insult to -every single civil rights leader out there.-

    She thinks she's a leader of a civil rights movement, act like it. Leaders of civil rights movements don't run to their daddies and have them pick up the pieces, especially wishing for a "third wave of atheism" after demonising the entire atheist community as privileged old white guys.

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  110. I'm older than Jen and I think my parents would want to express distress and dissatisfaction or even stick up for me regardless. Did I miss the part where she told her dad she needed him to stick up for her?

    If you think that those facing difficulty in fighting for rights didn't fall back on friends and family for support, telling them what they are dealing with and how it's effecting them, because that's weak and not what a real adult does... I think you're sorely mistaken. If you think people fighting for causes didn't get tired, take a step back, or cry (really?) I think you might want to look again. Also, saying that your daughter is a voice for atheist civil rights does not equal comparing her to MLK. That's your leap.

    I don't think she ever claimed most people were harassing, threatening, or throwing slurs her way. She has explained that it's something that is happening and that it is distressing to her to the point that she wants a break. That has nothing to do with people who have criticism of points she has made. Those aren't the people I've ever seen her talk about. Where did she say she wanted people to stop disagreeing with her?

    She is not the leader of the Atheism Plus movement. She can throw in her opinion on how she would like it to go, but it's not as though it's up to her. Regardless, I know I would want any movement I'm a part of to respect if someone needs to step back from what they are involved with for whatever reason.

    Why does someone taking a break from something upset you so much?

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  111. Sir, I agree these people could use a quick pimp slap. Why is it the people in the majority when they are challenged want to claim there are being attacked? I'm sorry to see your daughter blog go. It is one of my favorites.

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  112. You realize her father's saying he wanted to punch someone who would call her a slur to her face was on the internet? A violent sentiment on the internet not directed at an individual in fact.

    You can't have it both ways. Either you think it doesn't matter what someone says on the internet as far as threats go or it does. Unlike what his daughter dealt with, it wasn't a threat directed at an individual.

    It's not a matter of most people harassing her. Where did Jen or her father say most people where harassing her? When did they claim legitimate criticism equaled a threat? I never heard her complain about criticism. I never heard her quote criticism as something that was upsetting her. Maybe you're the one confusing things?

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  113. Pathetic troll is pathetic.

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  114. Is that what he was saying? I could have swore he said something to the effect of, "Back off my daughter or I'll punch you in the face."

    It sure has hell didn't say anything about women in the atheist community being treated like people. Unless in your world women are fragile beings who should be protected at all costs. Strange how the other social justice issues A+ supposedly stands for never seems to surface when you criticise A+ (the name or its tactics), just a strawmen about how you don't care about women and feminists. Odd how something that comes from FTB, a feminist echochamber, from a radical feminist, should be mostly focused on feminist concerns, even though its namesake, atheism, has nothing to do with feminism. One would think the word atheism is merely co-opted for convenience and not for relevance, and in fact the movement they should be focusing on is feminism, not atheism.

    Now, it's not like people have even -made- claims that women shouldn't be treated like people in the atheist community, but then again I'm used to the FTB proponents building up strawmen like that. I guess I should get accustomed to A+ proponents (which doesn't sound terribly morally superior at all) doing it as well. I should also get accustomed to A+ proponents using false equivalence for the need of A+, as in insults by some atheists constitutes a need for A+. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. At least you're not creating this ingroup/outgroup clique that bans people for not properly linking to the hivemind. Like being right-wing when you should be left-wing, libertarian when you should be democrat (or at least independent), capitalist when you should be socialist (or at least a social democrat), and so on and so forth. Oh well.

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  115. Hi Mike,

    I just wanted to let you know I greatly admire your daughter and she is one of the main people responsible for encouraging me to speak up and speak out. I want to share thanks for you supporting and raising such a butt kicking, amazing, outspoken, scientist and person. So i just want you to feel some support for those of out here who appreciate great female role models and admire people who stand up and speak for their free thought. Kudos to you and kudos to Jen

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  116. I'm really sorry to hear that this is happening. I run a smaller, minor atheist blog than your daughter's and have been following Jen's blog for a long time. Jen is (was) a fantastic blogger and a great voice for the movement. It made me very sad when she stopped blogging, though I can certainly understand her decision to do so. I was very happy to meet her at the Women in Skepticism conference; I'm a big fan.

    Also, if I could put this comment on Jen's blog I would -- I'm rooting for you, Jen. I hope that all this shit goes away and that the haters figure out that they're on the wrong side of history.

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  117. Exactly, I don't think the threats on the internet matter. I thought that was obvious.

    Well, seeing as all Jen do is complain about the harassment, threats and insults she receives from assholes, which can be easily dismissed, rather than focus on the legitimate criticisms which most aren't rude or ripe with threats of rape or name-calling, nor even acknowledge that such criticisms exist, she is equating legitimate criticism with harassments of calling her a slut.

    Since most people on the internet aren't snide, hateful bastards, and since most atheists on the internet aren't snide, hateful bastards, or misogynist and sexist, I think it's fair to say she has an inability distinguishing between the two. Then her seeming inherent attention seeking aspect focusing on the worst of the lot, the bone rather than the marrow, the skin rather than the flesh, of the matter and it's so transparent.

    Yes, how is it different what her daughter has experienced versus what he just did? Threaten with physical violence, getting threatened with physical violence. Same thing. The difference is that I don't take it seriously. Milling over threats over the internet is like milling over the sky falling down. In other words, in all likelihood not ever happening. I got over the fear of internet harassment when I was ten years old. Meanwhile, real harassment happens in other parts of the world -- not in Seattle, the fourth safest city in the US -- real abuse, real threats, and those you should always take seriously, except when a woman in Seattle with delusions of being a leader of a civil rights movement runs crying to her daddy. If only everyone had that kind of privilege.

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  118. I don't have anything supportive to add that hasn't already been said; I just wanted to add my two cents in support of you and Jen.

    I think that the asshole comments on this post are a wonderful illustration of how terrible Jen's detractors are. It's not sufficient to try to bully her into silence; they also try to bully anybody who shows support for her as well.

    I also think it's tragically hilarious that the trolls who 'call you out' on your choice of words have no problem with those of their fellows. If Jen would deserve the abuse (which she doesn't, obviously) aimed her way for 'berat[ing] men all day, every day', what would these assholes deserve for berating her all day, every day?

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  119. Are you really saying that I should put up with hateful men on my own fucking blog because some random internetian is going to tell me I am sub human if I don't? I think I'll run my blog however I want, thanks. There are plenty of other places for people to say horrible things about me online (and they do!).

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  120. Your daughter is an amazing woman and I'm very glad I had the chance to meet her, briefly, at the Women in Secularism conference. You have every reason to be proud of her, and I'm so sorry she and your family are being subjected to this harassment.
    -onion girl

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  121. Right or wrong I would do the same for my daughter. Pride and protection do not shut off when the birds fly the coop. Assholes #1 through whatever have not a leg to stand on. It's quite clear that either they are not fathers and/or their fathers were spineless chumps. Salud, Mr. Mike!

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  122. Mike, Jen has been an inspiration to many people. I wish you both all the best! Take care.

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  123. Nah, Jen's just not that good, sorry! "a great voice for advancing atheist civil rights", ROFL. He makes her sound like Martin Luthor King or Ghandi or something.
    "Mediocre hack" would be closer to the truth for our Jen!

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  124. You should follow Jen's dad's example and punch him in the mouth. Cos everybody knows that insults should immediately be followed by violence.

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  125. Dawkins can put up with the email threats/abuse he gets without getting relatives to threaten violence on others, why can't delicate Jen? Seriously, an honest answer as to why you think Jen should get any special treatment just cos she's a woman, would be appreciated.

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  126. Stop spamming, moron. If you've nothing to say, shut the fuck up.

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  127. It's no worse than abuse than Dawkins and others have suffered for years. Jen needs to grow a thicker skin and stop whining if she wants to be taken seriously. No special pleading, she needs to be treated the same as others if she considers herself equal. And you need to stop enabling the entitled idiot.
    There is plenty of discussion, if you could actually THINK about the arguments being presented. And outspoken feminists DESERVE to be harrassed since feminism is nothing more than a hate movement.
    How's that for 'something to discuss'?

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  128. I think she made most of them up. Not seen any evidence one way or the other. Dawkins publishes the threats he gets on his site, and he receives way worse stuff than delicate Jen has shown any evidence for the existence of. I think she's a drama-queen truth be told. Likes the attention - typical feminist.

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  129. Nah, Jen's just not that good, sorry! "a great voice for advancing atheist civil rights", ROFL. He makes her sound like Martin Luthor King or Ghandi or something.
    "Mediocre hack" would be closer to the truth for our Jen!

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  130. Yet you haven't refuted a single of the reasonable and logical points he made.

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  131. Yeah, she also has a bunch of people who think she's an entitled and talentless hack, who needs daddy to protect her from the big, bad, internet.

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  132. "Some parents forgot to teach their children how to disagree without being disagreeable."

    Right, so it is the parents' faults. Nice reasoning. Wish your parents could have taught you better or you could have been a better parent. Sounds nice, doesn't it? :)

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  133. She didn't make them you. You just lied to justify your bigotry. I'm sorry you have such a miserable life and are so full of hate. You can change.

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  134. Is telling the truth lethal to you, bigot?

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  135. hannanibal is a bitter angry virgin. he sees radfems everywhere because that's how he explains why no women will go within 100 feet of him IRL.

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  136. Im sorry your dad hates you.

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  137. Show evidence that a single comment I made was a lie or STFU.

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  138. Throw yourself off a really tall building. Better, bigot?

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  139. Time to go through with that suicide you've been planning.

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  140. Posting a comment in support and solidarity.

    As my own mama would say, "You ought to be ashamed of yourselves." And many of these commenters, they ought. Shame, shame.

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  141. Straight from the Bigot with Tiny Weenies handbook: make up a lot of lies, blame FTB, then pretend that the "sceptic" community hates FTB, but FTB is going to destroy the world at the same time.

    Poor little chickenshit. No wonder women hate you.

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  142. Ahh, so mocking someone who's the focus of your psychotic hate campaign is "civility" No wonder you morons are so confused why you're a laughing stock.

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  143. Oh look, here's another shit-heel who had to get his 2 cents in. "Yap yap yap," goes the little dog, "listen to my pointless barking, like all the other doggies on the big bad Internet! Yap yap yap yap yap!" FOAD, you waste of skin.

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  144. If you're a selective reader. On your "about" page on your blog, you say clearly you hate most men, disparage them as violent criminals and "world ruining politicians." (Among other things.) No, I don't think you have the right to morally posture about -any- accusations made on this blog, nor anywhere else for that matter, if that is the rhetoric you spew. Even if it -is- on your own blog. You're petty, vindictive, and unless it's a woman you don't care. Telling Jen to grow up is the simplest, and lamest, "sexist slur" I can come up with.

    Furthermore your blog is filled with invective, and a narrative that's largely fit inside your own head. You conclude any criticism of women to be sexist, any comment a slur, and any man daring to protest a misogynist. It doesn't come as a surprise to me that you (and people like you) have given up scepticism to pursue persecution, even when all the cards are not on the table. Again, it would serve women better if you didn't act like such an awful, irratating sample of the female gender and worked to act more like a decent human being - especially someone who does not accuse half the world's population wholesale of being rapists, criminals, "world ruining" and more, and not assuming that women are weak, subservient and unable to take care of themselves.

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  145. It’s funny how predictable emotionally immature humans can be. So formulaic in how they try to make a thing they don’t like go away. Jen has done wonderful things for skepticism and atheism and I don’t doubt that she will be back. I understand anyone needing a break from pre-teen level behavior on a group level. I will checking back with her blog eagerly for her return

    I see a couple of interesting patterns among these funny little trolls...
    1. The constant parade of “Straw-Jens”
    There is not a single example of Jen’s behavior paired with any of the claims by the sub humans here. Let me help you all out.
    *Pick out a selection of quotes from Jen’s writings, and link to the particular work.
    *Post them with your version of what they mean.
    *Finally (and most importantly) connect the dots between the two.
    Anything else is a pure assertion and can be rejected outright. I completely understand the desire to leave the current atheist community for one that cares about rights issues and consider myself an A+. Thanks for helping to build our community for us!

    2. “OMG he said he would punch someone eleventy!!!11”
    There is really no other way to distract from a legitimate point like the effect of torrential abuse than a temper tantrum. They have to raise the emotional level in the room because there is no other way to win. Because winning is what they want, not reality. Of course he wants to defend his daughter, and of course it was a mistake to say that. But just watch them all worry that little bit to death like a dog with a bone! It’s almost like it was deliberate just to watch them all jump on command…

    3. “OMG Jen needs her daddy to protect her!”
    Every human has a point where emotional abuse can get too much. What literally every commenter using this point has failed to do is to show that somehow Jen has not hit that point on a purely human level, and that her Dad’s support actually matters in the way they claim. Families give support, that is what they do.

    It's hard for me to take them seriously when they all act like little machines with no independent thought.

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  146. It is at least a little impressive that Jen managed to get such a following only complaining about threats and insults! You've got to give her that. Funny I never noticed before. Thanks for doing a complete overview clarifying that that's all she ever did on her blog. I was clearly under the mistaken impression from reading it that she did so rather rarely.

    She does respond to criticism. Not every comment ever. She is specific about what kinds of things are bringing her down. It's not people with legitimate arguments. Your claim is outright false.

    Well, it is different that he didn't go to an individuals blog, twitter, or email to say he wanted to punch them. Over and over on a daily basis. That is the difference between harassing someone and threatening something against an unknown faceless thought of a person that might do something. If he went through her blog posts and responded to all the people commenting threats and said "I hope you get raped and die." we'd only be closer to the same thing. If he tracked down their email and sent that every day we'd be there. I agree it was a hypocritical statement but there is a difference.

    She never said she thought it was likely they were all going to come and get her. While her identity, school, department, appearance, and where she was going to talk where all known things, I agree that it's still less than likely to happen. More likely for her than you or I but still unlikely. What she did say is that it was wearing her down and she wanted a break. I can't say I wouldn't feel the same. What is it you feel you're accomplishing by posting that you think she should be fine with it in a comment on her father's blog? Or anywhere for that matter?

    I guarantee you harassment happens in Seattle. It may be safer than other places but it's not a magical land where nothing bad ever happens to anyone.

    When did she say she thought she was a leader of a civil rights movement?

    When did she run crying to her dad? I thought he read her blog, knows her, knows she is taking a break, and posted on his own blog. Did he do a guest post at her request on her blog? Did he even use her name in this blog? No. Why is she responsible for how her dad feels and expresses himself on his own blog. It doesn't say anything about her except that she has a dad that cares about her and feels for her.

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  147. Hmm, yes. Hate campaign. I forget: what was it that Jen had been doing for the past few months? Other than telling fellow atheists to fuck off, that is, or telling fellow atheists she hates their guts, that atheists are nothing but a bunch of privileged white men, like Dawkins, Dennett and Hitchens, and that because atheists are such hateful people she wishes for a "third wave of atheism" to stem the tide. Do you know? Because I can't remember.

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  148. You're right to be proud of your daughter, and she's lucky to have a loving supportive father.

    And as nasty as some of the trolls are I think you can be sure there are far more of us who respect and admire Jen for all she has done, for her clever, insightful blogging and especially for her courage.

    I wonder if the trolls attacking her realize how small and petty they must look to any casual observer, and how much harm they are doing to the cause of secularism and reason with their childish behaviour.

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  149. Unfortunately, the FTB community has decided that their concerns are more important than the concerns of closet atheists, or women who get abused on a daily basis in the Middle East for speaking up, or being in the street without a male escort, or who gets acid thrown in their faces, because boo hoo, one girl in Seattle feels she has been pushed out of the community and therefore should garner all the attention. Narcissistic and egotistical. Add feminism and you have the FTB community in a nutshell.

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  150. Yet Bruce Mcglory's white knighting has earned him how many blowjobs? Hmmm? Oh what? None?

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  151. Yes we must go oppose bad things over there and not here because you want us to!

    You are not part of my atheist community. I do not want to be in a community with you. I reject you.

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  152. Tell me some truth and see, cunt.

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  153. "Psychotic hate campaign" You are such a little gem! :D

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  154. OMG! Ignoring physical threats of violence because they suit your narrative! Fucking hypocrite.

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  155. Reject away Brony. I still love you and some day we will stroke ponies together whether you like it or not xx

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  156. Why is Jen different from Dawkins and having different responses than a different person? We really should all be the same. A young person just starting out in a movement should have the same limits of willingness to participate as someone who has the level of notoriety, age, and experience as Dawkins. They should keep going even when they aren't enjoying it any more and they feel it's detracting from the rest of their life. Otherwise that person is delicate. Why are people different?

    Also, where does it say she got her dad to make this post let alone threaten people? Totally missed that. I also thought she said the punch comment "was wrong".

    I don't think she deserves special treatment. I don't think anyone should have to deal with a flood of hate-mail. I think anyone should be able to take a break if for whatever reason they are dreading or even not even enjoying their free blog. I think people should not have to have people flood their family's blog post supporting them, with insulting, pointless, repetitive comments. Not Dawkins, not Jen, not you, not anyone regardless of gender, race, age, religion, etc.

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  157. Such massive projection.

    "Unless in your world women are fragile beings who should be protected at all costs."
    Humans can be fragile. I have no reason to think that she has not met her emotional limit on a purely human level. You may not have a limit due to lack of empathy. I think it's a requirement.

    "Strange how the other social justice issues A+ supposedly stands for never seems to surface when you criticise A+ (the name or its tactics), just a strawmen about how you don't care about women and feminists."
    So you have collected data on their official activities so far? Please share!

    "Odd how something that comes from FTB, a feminist echochamber, from a radical feminist, should be mostly focused on feminist concerns, even though its namesake, atheism, has nothing to do with feminism. One would think the word atheism is merely co-opted for convenience and not for relevance, and in fact the movement they should be focusing on is feminism, not atheism."
    There are actual writings and links about A+. Please post them and demonstrate your point. You are rejected until you do.

    "Now, it's not like people have even -made- claims that women shouldn't be treated like people in the atheist community, but then again I'm used to the FTB proponents building up strawmen like that."
    You seem to be implying that someone claimed someone else said women should be treated badly.
    NOTE TO ALL: This is another common tactic. Make your opponent do all the work, and make it as confusing as possible by literally being the person to start the "but so and so said such and such!" game, with no links...

    Keep talking! We could use more people in A+

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  158. Look at the monkey not quoting and comparing and actually connecting ideas. Boring. Humans are special for certain reasons that you are not practicing right now. Please continue....

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  159. Well crap. I am stuck with you.

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  160. Keep jumping for that bone doggie! It's good emotional noise huh?

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  161. So where is the criticism? I've see a lot of talk out of you this thread but you point to nothing...

    You can say that people are calling legitimate criticism sexist all you want. It's all words until you,
    1. Post examples
    2. Give your analysis
    3. (most importantly) make the connections for us.

    Really, until you start doing this nothing else you say is in any way interesting or memorable.

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  162. "You conclude any criticism of women to be sexist, any comment a slur, and any man daring to protest a misogynist."

    But where did she do that here? I don't see it. Take my hand, walk me through it. For the other readers if not for me...

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  163. This! This! A thousand times this!

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  164. Are you eleven? This is the same stuff the middle school kids I encounter come up with...

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  165. Abusing someone who suffers from depression is not something decent human beings do. But it is something a coward might do, having no concept of the courage required to speak out in public when you are wired for depression.

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  166. I did not reply to you in the same tone as the others because you presented yourself as a respectable person. Thank you for that.

    For people like me, I do admit that it was an unfortunate comment. But we do not always get objectivity from family even thought we should hold them to the same standard.

    However your point does not stand all by itself and I will not pretend it does. I am opposing a social force. A nameless and faceless mass of human behavior. If you can give me specific ways to combat this, effectively, that also addresses your point I would be happy to consider them.

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  167. I will also address you more respectfully due to tone.

    I will give you the same comment as I gave another above with respect to the "fist to the mouth" comment. For people like me, I do admit that it was an unfortunate comment. But we do not always get objectivity from family even thought we should hold them to the same standard.

    However your point does not stand all by itself and I will not pretend it does. I am opposing a social force. A nameless and faceless mass of human behavior. If you can give me specific ways to combat this, effectively, that also addresses your point I would be happy to consider them.

    As for your name-calling comment, I consider some of it descriptive rather then name calling. You would have to get specific for us to discuss this farther.

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  168. And these reasons. Are they connected to My Little Pony fandom??

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  169. Another distraction from the meat computer. Instincts suck huh?

    I actually discovered that being a Brony was a nice way to point these flaws out. You would be amazed at how many times people have done what you just did. Like there was any actual connection there for you use. You have to pretend there might be one.

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  170. Good for you for standing up for your daughter. Parents who stand up for their kids, even when they're all grown up, are awesome. Hang in there and give Jen hugs for all of us.

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  171. wow, you're really fucking stupid. Does it hurt to be that stupid? Because it really fucking should.

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  172. Threats on the Internet are nothing serious huh?
    "Megan hanged herself Oct. 16, 2006, shortly after receiving cruel messages on the social networking website MySpace. Megan’s parents, Ron and Tina Meier, found out six weeks after Megan’s death that the boy their daughter had been chatting with online never existed.
    http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/12/03/megan-meiers-suicide-by-online-harassment-goes-unpunished/"

    There's a wealth of information online to rip your opinion (which I'd be curious to know how you arrived at; certainly not through application of critical thinking and skepticism) to shreds. No Jen is not a 13 year old girl, but the point is that online harassment can indeed have dire consequences. That you support such actions is vile and helps to contribute to a culture where 13 year olds DO commit suicide from online harassment.

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  173. Because number of blowjobs is the yardstick by which people are measured?

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  174. "Most people who criticise Jen do it from a legitimate standpoint."

    You actually think people have a legitimate criticism of Jen that justifies violent rhetoric, threats of rape and online harassment. For months on end. In her email. On Twitter. On her blog. Hell, probably on Facebook too.
    There is no excuse for the harassment and threats Jen has received. NONE.
    In addition, what are these 'legitimate criticisms'.
    Can you name any of them?
    All you gutter dwelling scum bags reveling in the pain of another human being talk about how mean Jen has been, or all the stuff she says. Yet EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of you produces nothing to support your claims that she's done anything to you. You've provided not one iota of evidence that supports your claims. Yet here you are, defending the actions of the venomous Wooly "I'm an expert on bullying, because I AM one" Bumblebee as if she has any justification for her narrow views of the world (Hi my name is Wooly. When I get harassed, I just shrug it off, because I'm a Chill Girl and nothing affects me. You should do the same thing. If you don't then you're not fit to be an adult and function in society, because my standards and rules are the only ones that matter, and fuck anyone who doesn't do things my way.)
    There are gay children committing suicide across the United States because of bullying. They have gotten it online, in school, at church, on the bus-everywhere. They. Are. Killing. Themselves.
    People like you and Chill Girl Wooly contribute to that culture by telling people to get over it.
    It's not ok.
    It doesn't matter if you're 8 or 38.
    It's wrong.
    It's reprehensible.
    You should feel ashamed of yourselves (I know you don't).

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  175. Steve:
    Sadly, I think the answer to your question is yes.
    There are people who think it's no big deal that someone is dealing with depression.
    These are the same people who think online harassment and bullying is also no big deal, despite the number of people who have killed themselves from such horrible actions.
    It's like many of them are unwilling, or unable to think outside themselves and see how their actions are hurting someone else. Either that, or they just don't care.
    Whatever the case, they're wrong. Their actions do hurt people. Their words DO hurt people. Their threats of rape and violent rhetoric do bring pain.

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  176. Brony:
    Here's a bottle of bleach. You may need to cleanse after reading all the dreck from these people. Only half a bottle left, because I'm doing the same thing.
    Aside from the lack of any evidence about the purported mean things Jen has done (Ashley came close, but the examples listed were still too vague to understand what wrongs Jen has done) none of these people has even explained how you get from "Jen said things I don't like or accused me of something" to "it's ok to send her rape threats".

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  177. Ok 'hannanibal', fine. I think Mike went too far with the threats of punching someone. Are you happy. Ready to move on now.
    Let's talk about visceral reactions a parent (or a great many human beings, really) might have when they find out that someone they love has been threatened continuously for months.
    As a great example: I've gotten quite pissed off at the vitriol people like you have directed towards Jen (and Greta, PZ, Ophelia, and Rebecca). There are many times that my first reaction is to want to punch someone. I own that. My second reaction, after calming down is to realize that's the wrong attitude to have. It's human, I admit it. I have to continue to work at not responding with that emotion immediately-AND I'VE NEVER ENGAGED IN PHYSICAL VIOLENCE OF ANY SORT IN MY 36 YEARS-but I'm owning it.

    Are you ready to own your actions?
    Are you ready to see how your attitude towards Jen is unwarranted?
    Are you ready to put up or shut up?

    (I can just guess your answer)

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  178. Once again another idiot posts about FTB as if it's some sort of monolith where everyone-bloggers and commenters alike-think the same thing. Your argument falls down with your opening sentence. No one decided anything. Have you even fucking read any blogs at FtB?
    Have you seen the frequency with which bloggers criticize Anti-Gay bigots?
    Have seen the blog posts condemning religious violence in the Middle East?
    Have you seen the posts that condemn the way women are treated in many Muslim countries?
    Have you seen the posts that criticize politicians for their treatment of atheists?
    You clearly haven't seen the bloggers that DID criticize acid attacks.

    You fail at reading comprehension.
    You fail at the basic understanding that people can talk about and engage in criticisms of MULTIPLE issues of social justice.

    What exactly have you done lately?

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  179. Brony:
    They're like scabies.
    You need a topical medication to get rid of them. Unfortunately there seem to be more of them than one bottle can handle.

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  180. Yes, I've addressed what Mike said.
    I'll do it again: I think he should not have made any threats of physical violence. It's wrong.
    Happy?
    Now, why do you trot along to Blag Hag and read Jen's post about why she's taking a hiatus from blogging before you comment about the harassment she's been getting.
    Learn to read while you're at it. Nowhere did I make a claim about 'most people' doing anything. There were people harassing her. That's a fact (yes, I take her at her word, unlike you scumbags).
    I never said they treated harassment as equal to threats (though I find them on the same spectrum, and I notice you're making excuses for harassment. Lovely.)
    You never heard her complain about criticism? You don't read her blog now do you?
    I'm not confusing anything.

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  181. Actually, the claim that someone made up threats - especially since she posted some evidence of them in her blog - is extraordinary, and so the burden of proof is on you.

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  182. Two generations of liberal idiots is evidently enough. Why your daughter is such a vile person is easy to see.


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  183. See, I do think harassment and threats on the Internet matter.
    Clearly when people KILL themselves because of such, it's not a big problem huh?

    Fucking A, you act like just because it's not an issue for you, that it's nonexistent.

    How can you be so lacking in empathy?

    How can you be so clueless about what privilege is (despite the fact that you use the word, you have little understanding)?

    Diminishing harassment online as 'not a big deal' doesn't help solve the problem of online harassment, which IS a big deal.
    You can start your own research into this very real problem here:
    http://www.cyber-rights.org/documents/stalking_article.pdf

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  184. Mr. McCreight: I'm nobody special, just one of the hordes of skeptics who appreciate Jen's writing and abhor and abominate the abuse heaped on her and now on yourself. Please assure her that there are as many of us out here as there are hatemongers and fools.

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  185. To all those who think online harassment is 'not a big deal':

    "Cyberstalking. Cyberstalking is the use of the Internet, email or other electronic communications to stalk, and generally refers to a pattern of threatening or malicious behaviors. Cyberstalking may be considered the most dangerous of the three types of Internet harassment, based on a posing credible threat of harm. Sanctions range from misdemeanors to felonies.

    Cyberharassment. Cyberharassment differs from cyberstalking in that it is generally defined as not involving a credible threat. Cyberharassment usually pertains to threatening or harassing email messages, instant messages, or to blog entries or websites dedicated solely to tormenting an individual. Some states approach cyberharrassment by including language addressing electronic communications in general harassment statutes, while others have created stand-alone cyberharassment statutes.

    http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/telecom/cyberstalking-and-cyberharassment-laws.aspx"

    That site also has a chart that shows the 30+ states in the US with laws against cyberharassment.

    Yeah, that's really not much of a problem at all...

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  186. Delightful. You proved yourself in the wrong with an irrelevant sexist slur.

    Failed.

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  187. Does anyone else find it funny that the idiot Jen has to rely on the patriarchy to get people to curtail their freedom of speech?

    Oh it hurts!

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  188. There is a fundamental difficulty in the thinking of anyone who thinks 'liberal' constitutes a slur.

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